Thursday, November 20, 2008

Gay Marriage

I have been doing a lot of research on gay marriage this week. I'm working on an editorial of sorts but my housewifely duties have been suffering. And Thanksgiving is in one week... I've got some projects I've got to finish!!! I will say that in really digging into this issue I've learned that I've been misinformed in some areas and it has caused me to really re-evaluate some things and try to form a fully developed opinion based on facts.


1. Where do you stand on gay marriage?

2. What do you see as the differences between gay marriage and civil unions?

3. Do you see this issue as one of equality?


Two Dogs said...

Okay, I am curious, why are you interested in gay marriage? Is Roland looking to get hitched?

[It was a joke, Roland, I know that you are already married to someone of the opposite sex. (Allegedly!) Do not get your lace-covered Victoria's Secret thong all bunched up. Your whaletail might get crooked.]

1. Firmly on the throat of.

2. The terms are of such ambiguity as to render discussion impossible.

3. Gay is NOT the new black.

Sarah said...

1. I don't really. As a Christian, I believe it's an abomination. As an American citizen, do whatever you want so long as I don't ever have to see it or hear about it. Gag.

2. Semantics. I like civil unions because it doesn't sounds like it'll be forced on pastor's or other religious clergy to perform--it's more of a civic rather than religious thing. Separation of church and state, people! Don't you dare tell a minister what marriages to perform, and don't you dare prosecute him for choosing not to perform one, whether it's for gay, straight, black, white or purple. It's not the government's place. If they want religion to stay out their business, stay the heck out of religious business.

3. Nope. It's the creepy vocal minority being a b... well, you get it. ;)

BLBeamer said...

My favorite gay marriage joke:

"I don't know how I feel about gay marriage, but I am all for gay divorce."

(I'm not sure who to credit, but I think it's funny).

That's all I have time for today.

Roland Hulme said...

1: I think gay people are the same as everybody else. If you're a Christian, God made all men in his image, so he's clearly okay with it. People who claim it's an abomination (sorry Sarah) have, in my mind, clearly misinterpreted the Bible like they did with interracial marriage 60 years ago.

2: In my mind, civil partnerships with the same rights as marriage are effectively the same. But if they were, why would Christians be so against letting gay people get them? Same old civil rights hypocrisy: "Seperate but equal."

3: In my mind, it's a question of humanity. There have been gay people as long as there have been people - open a damned history book. In the 21st century, it is simply BEYOND MY UNDERSTANDING that apparently intelligent and rational people can try and deny two consenting adults' right to have a relationship.

It's no different to me than banning interracial marriage or trying to ban somebody from practicising their own religion. It's disgusting.

I happen to live in New York and work in the media industry, so I have lots of gay friends. They are no different to me except for wanting to have relationships with members of the same sex. That's no different to a Christian wanting to have a relationship with another Christian. You're attracted to who you're attracted to. If you're religious, I can't understand why you'd think God would 'punish' anybody by giving them urges he says are 'an abomination.' That's NOT the Christian God I learned about in theological college.

I find that 99% of the people who are 'against' homosexuality aren't actually friends with any gay people and were brainwashed into their 'opinions' about it without ever having the chance to make their minds up for themselves.

They should actually MEET with and befriend and TALK to gay people with an OPEN MIND and they will realise we are ALL the same.

I find the whole debate deeply offensive in our supposedly 'modern' society and it's one of the top reasons why I am so at odds with the Conservative Christian movement.

No amount of 'support the troops' stickers will make up for being a bad human being and a bad American by trying to deny your fellow countrymen the rights outlined in the Declaration of Independence.

"...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

In Loving vs. Virginia, the SCOTUS decision that allowed interracial marriage, it was declared:

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

Let gay people get married. It's the only right thing to do. If you don't believe that, I earnestly believe you simply don't 'get' what being an American is all about. It's supporting FREEDOMS that you might not agree with.

Sarah put it beautifully:

"As an American citizen, do whatever you want so long as I don't ever have to see it or hear about it. Gag."

If that's what you truly believe, you are a truly inspirational American.

And just for the record, as open minded as I am, I still turn to a different channel when two men kiss on TV (although I'm a guy, so I'm fine with two girls smooching.)

Roland Hulme said...

By the way, Two Dogs has clearly spent FAR TOO MUCH TIME imagining me in lady's underwear.

Doth protest too much, methinks?

I'm flattered, Two Dawg, but just because I watch Doctor Who doesn't mean I go that way. :-)

Tom said...

1. I support gay marriage. I figure it's better than gay living in sin.

But seriously, I think that stable monogamous relationships are fundamentally a good thing, and should be encouraged regardless of sexual orientation.

2. Personally, I never liked the current definition of marriage, which conflates a number of legal rights with a religious ritual.

I think the best solution to this problem would be to eliminate straight marriage, at least as a legal construct. Pairs of people, gay and straight, would be civily united under the law, and the question of being married or not would be between them and their religion.

Right now, civil unions are seen as second-class, insofar as essentially no straight people have civil unions. If they become the first-class concept, then there's no problem.

3. Hm... I'm not sure. I sidestep this with the "it's a good idea" argument.

4. Not everything I think is a good idea is a constitutional right. In fact, I think that when judges read into the constitution rights that aren't there, it's a problem. I don't like the idea that an important document reads one way one day, and the next day it can be interpreted in a totally different way.

When judges decide something is a consitutitional right, then that takes the thing outside the realm of debate. And that can lead to hard feelings... see the whole abortion debate, which has been raging on for decades now, despite not really going anywhere. That's bad for society.

I think the right solution for proponents of gay marriage is to work through the political process. In California, they had already convinced a majority of the legislature to go along with them. But then they went the court route, and as a result the constitution was amended... and that means that it will be very hard to succeed in the future.

Whereas if they had simply waited, in a few years they would have gotten the law passed, and it wouldn't have been a huge deal.

Roland Hulme said...

I'd vote for Tom, he's smart. I agree with all of what he wrote.

April said...

I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I realize this is an unpopular opinion for a Christian, but I also don't think I am put on this earth to judge others. If churches don't want to perform ceremonies for gay couples, fine. But gay couples should be allowed a civil union.

Just Me said...

I see nothing wrong with gay couples enjoying a civil union. For me (and I know it's petty), the term "marriage," while a legal proceeding, has its roots in faith; as such, "marriage" is for man and woman.

I do see recognizing a civil union as an equality issue. You are what you are. Why should the government penalize you for your gender preference?

I don't know where the change needs to take place. The conservative in me prefers leaving the decision to the states, but currently we have many, many states with legislation in place which hinders gay unions. I don't know when/if that will change.

If the Federal Government cans step forward and support the issue (changes in tax code granting benefits to unified gay couples), maybe states will follows suit.

I'd prefer they do so without Constitutional amendment.

Just Me said...

And, yes, Sarah raised an excellent point. I see no problem with a civil union provided that performing said ceremony isn't being forced upon clergy. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

Melody said...

You know? Honestly I wish the government could just get itself out of the marriage business altogether. (Heterosexual too!) Then it simply wouldn't be an issue.

It irritates me to think of "Marriage Licenses". Who are they, really, to say who can and who can't be legally married??? The whole thing bothers me.

That said, I really do not have any issues with gays, but it does make me uncomfortable to think of the ramifications of "legal" gay marriage. My concern is over exactly what already happened in Massachussets. I don't want my children taught by educators about homosexuality *at all*! I don't want them to be taught to be hateful about it, *and* I don't want a sex ed class taught about it either!

I like to live and let live. As a Christian I feel that it only Christ's job, not mine, to judge a person. To have this issue come up has been a hard one for me.